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View Full Version : Rework damage reduction support villains



moodle
06-10-2017, 08:35 AM
As most of the community has spoken on this and you must be aware aino, madigil and now arute are way too strong at the moment. I have made multiple posts regarding this and they have gone unanswered so I thought I'd post a suggestion on how to make them more enjoyable in the game as a whole.

1. Make it so that damage reduction does not stack, this includes one damage reduction villains own skill overlapped and adding to itself.

2. Cap the maximum damage reduction to an amount that is fair (50% overall seems very reasonable) but that players won't feel they can do absolutely nothing if someone has 3 villains buffing mana and 2 villains buffing damage reduction. There is no interaction or ways of getting around or through a team like this and it is very boring and takes out the excitement of working on villains and making strategies if everyone can just abuse an overpowered skill by spamming it and overlapping/stacking it.

3. Please take these suggestions seriously this is not just one person upset because they're losing to a good/solid strategy. This is a built in mechanic of the game that is making the community as a whole enjoy it a lot less because it is not balanced.

Thank you for your time and I truly hope you respond, I understand this may be a complex issue but any response would be appreciated.

Gildenrat
06-10-2017, 10:04 AM
In defense of the defenders: it gives a fighting chance to retain resources and continue to build. Without the mana / damage reduce defense it would be very difficult to progress past mid game. You could never save enough resources without being pillaged. I would have and will in the future stop playing if there is no chance to be something other than a farm for more advanced players.

Mikolaj
06-10-2017, 10:42 AM
I agree with sentiment in the first point: Madgil's skill stacking with itself isn't fair. No other skills that I know of stack with themselves. Think about if Django's shield stacked with itself.

To the first reply: There are plenty of ways to prevent yourself from being pillaged aside from this strategy. Also, getting pillaged is essential to the function of league. No endgame player even relies on pillaging for resources; you have an Iron Bank specifically to prevent this. The point is for medals. Pillaging resources is just a bonus. You also have buildings that gather resources while you're offline to offset any you could lose while offline.

Ph00ey
06-10-2017, 11:02 AM
In defense of the defenders: it gives a fighting chance to retain resources and continue to build. Without the mana / damage reduce defense it would be very difficult to progress past mid game. You could never save enough resources without being pillaged. I would have and will in the future stop playing if there is no chance to be something other than a farm for more advanced players.

That's why you have protection shields...
You can buy them. However since Sway aren't money hungry like most app games, they'll also be found in chests or feather purchases.

Ph00ey
06-10-2017, 11:09 AM
Agree to all of Moodle's post.

Gildenrat
06-10-2017, 09:47 PM
Fair points. Here are some others.
While the top players don' rely on the gold the mid players rely on the keeping if gold. Its the stockpile of resources. Needing 300k+ while having 10% wiped every 1.5 hours becomes difficult at best.
But the war is far more than medals. The medal rewards at end if season really are not a lot. Pillaging is the biggest change. The resource buildings also provide a steady stream if cash. Also just the ability to trade which greatly helps with energy and minor resource. Really the battle field is key to many things. If it was just medals it would be annoying.
In summary there are several vocal players who have been playing for a long time that have great teams that want to dominate. This is in opposition to many players who are trying to climb. The defense is powerful but so are some offenses such as luv with col. Most people use the same 7 or so units. If you want to rebalance great but i would not look only at the defense units.
Perhaps kills defense but only allow pillaging once per day. Note this is not thought out but the need for defense to allow mid players
To build is necessary with all the other current mechanics

moodle
06-11-2017, 08:03 AM
While I understand what you are saying I'm not requesting them to make them useless. I'm requesting them to balance them out so that they aren't overpowered. Name a pvp game where you can have invulnerability with no way around it after the first 2 rounds of the match please? This is not fun. 50% less dmg for your team is extremely reasonable and still might be too much... This has nothing to do with ego or 'dominating' this has to with being unhealthy for the game as a whole and making playing a negative experience. It's non-interactive and requires 0 thinking to make this defense, isn't this a strategy based rpg?

babehboi
06-11-2017, 09:15 AM
In all due respect, I agree that sometimes it was discouraging to go against a team that seems stacked against you. But then again....I think the changes to the character setups and balancing them does work out to offset the imbalances Madgil and such impose.

I don't think we should just kill what has been built around the defense as that's what people should aspire for...defending their base...

If we only go straight for all ATK and cannot defend...then the game is only based on who has the strongest army....the strongest army should find a way to get through the defense despite how "impenetrable" it may seem...I think that's where real strategy comes into play.

I think people building towards a defense to help protect their base is still very important, just as important to what they can do to attack. To protect resources to help them grow is important. Without that, you're screwed. The Iron BAnk ALONE does not protect that much resources for the user. And your skill the iron bank to help protect is minimal. And mind you, we have to remember that it is a turn based game where the attacker does have a slight advantage...

I agree that yes, this is of war and you shoudl be able to loot...but then it allows for the strong players or the team that takes control of the board first to be the strongest...and the the other team is quite assed out...

I like the improvement on Arute because it made her much more useful than before...and you have to now play a different way (yet again - but not in a bad way) for each base you go against...which adds a bit more variability.

I don't have Lyel or Rene to comment on their skills or usage...but I hear they're pretty darn good too.

I think one of the key things that should always be kept true is that...no matter how strong someone's team is...if someone else's team that is smaller but can out strategize another...should be given that chance.

moodle
06-11-2017, 10:34 AM
Why do I feel like no one is reading what I'm writing... here it goes again I do not want to kill/ruin/destroy or otherwise make useless dmg reducing villains, what I want is BALANCE. I want them to work in a way that doesn't feel like they are way too powerful ie stacking and overlapping and making all dmg taken go to 0-1 as this makes interactions very boring and unexciting for the playerbase. It's not going to be about strategy or outthinking your opponent if everyone has 3 mana villains and 2 dmg reducing villains it's just going to be one boring ass game.

cadaverescu
06-12-2017, 10:32 PM
Why do I feel like no one is reading what I'm writing... here it goes again I do not want to kill/ruin/destroy or otherwise make useless dmg reducing villains, what I want is BALANCE. I want them to work in a way that doesn't feel like they are way too powerful ie stacking and overlapping and making all dmg taken go to 0-1 as this makes interactions very boring and unexciting for the playerbase. It's not going to be about strategy or outthinking your opponent if everyone has 3 mana villains and 2 dmg reducing villains it's just going to be one boring ass game.

first i do not have a def team, i am building one for i am stuck in campaign
i belive that the rock paper scisors sistem should apply. What this game needs more than nerfing the damage reduction, is a mana burner sistem. If i can get the mana burn high enough this discution becomes pointless.
Having a vip character easy to make (like poporing) having a added mana burn 100 to all enemy with the skill would make a usefull counter to the high def build.
Alt some characters should be piercing damage, the damage over time should not be reduced by def or stuff like that.
A mana burn alternative for the equips is also nice.

moodle
06-13-2017, 11:30 AM
What I think you fail to understand or realize is that as soon as one mana buffing villain gives mana they also buff immunity for 3 turns which makes mana burn useless. Everyone uses these villains and if you are the attacker you will always get your buff off so it makes that sort of defense pointless especially with arute.

이유.
06-13-2017, 06:45 PM
Hi, maybe you know me.
Because English is not my first language, I'm sorry for my awkward Eng.

I think Arute, Aino, Madgil(Dmg reduce) is so strong, but they can be countered by Echeveria, Abi, Arca(I don't know exact name. she is sniper) or equipped bow villain.
and taunt villains or mana burn villains also can counter for dmg reducer(babeboi use well mana burn villain. And I'm use colleague to counter dmg reducer).

If dmg reducer get nerfed(limit percentage 50% also), Defending city will be very difficult, and we can't clear tower of another realm, and pvp will be just power game. That is more boring than current circumstance to me.


In isolation, I think different villain can stack same buff(dmg reduce) should be corrected.

xZee
06-15-2017, 07:28 PM
I agree that damage reduction needs a rework, either:

1. Have it a cap limit. Cap at 50% on damage reduction is good, even a cap at 70% is tolerable.

2. Damage reduction should stack multiplicatively and not additively. Assuming you have heroes with damage reduction buff as follows: Aino = 60%; Arute = 55% and Madgil = 50%, your total damage reduction should be at 91%, not the total of 165%.

The way damage reduction currently works is like a bug, it should not function like this, it should be fixed. In almost all popular games involving damage calculations, stats like damage reduction, evasion, damage increase, should be stack multiplicatively.

cadaverescu
07-06-2017, 08:37 AM
Hi, maybe you know me.
Because English is not my first language, I'm sorry for my awkward Eng.

I think Arute, Aino, Madgil(Dmg reduce) is so strong, but they can be countered by Echeveria, Abi, Arca(I don't know exact name. she is sniper) or equipped bow villain.
and taunt villains or mana burn villains also can counter for dmg reducer(babeboi use well mana burn villain. And I'm use colleague to counter dmg reducer).

If dmg reducer get nerfed(limit percentage 50% also), Defending city will be very difficult, and we can't clear tower of another realm, and pvp will be just power game. That is more boring than current circumstance to me.


In isolation, I think different villain can stack same buff(dmg reduce) should be corrected.

I think that the 3 damage reduction damage heroes should not stack one with the other. but in PVE it is hard as it is. the maxed out heros have hard times finishing the PVE campaign.
at this moment i needed a maxed out VIP Madgil+ 2 mana boosters+ VIP Django and VIP poporing to finsh the normal campaign. IN the hard version i am stuck because i can not defeat the boss in the 100 rounds given. Having the defence skill nerfed would mean that today`s campaign is imposible to finish. The nerf should be from 2 separate heroes the defence skill does not stack